Thursday, February 11, 2010

Quick response to new APA draft on Transvestic Fetish

It's late and I've been busy and with bad symnptoms so this is brief though i've added comments on it at bilerico and Zoe's and at some crossdressing forums.

Here it is:

That its there at all is problem number 1.

There's lots wrong with it.

It still only lists Males. I know female-bodied crossdressers exist cause I'm dating one!

The rationale section makes clear that even a well adjusted happy crossdresser is still labelled as having not-normative sexual behaviour even if not having the disorder so long as they ever have sex when dressed.

And then there's the bit where they explain no longer having heterosexuality a criteria for diagnosis (emphasis added by me): "[11] The word “heterosexual” was removed because some transvestites interact sexually with other males, especially when cross-dressed, and may subjectively perceive themselves as bisexual."

Not may be bisexual, not may be homosexual. But may subjectively perceive themselves as bisexual.
Are they wrong about being bisexual? Seems to me something they'd know. Are they suggesting Bisexuality doesn't exist?

I'll discuss this at more length later as there's plenty more but I'll mention this as it will also annoy the HBS crew who always demand that CDs have no conection to TSs and don't suffer gender dysporia: "Other transvestites, whom Blanchard (1989) has called autogynephiles, are most aroused by the thought or image of themselves as women. As a practical matter, the autogynephilic type seems to have a higher risk of developing gender dysphoria. This was confirmed in a secondary data analysis reported by Blanchard (2009c). The results of that analysis clearly suggested that the addition of the proposed specifiers to the diagnosis of Transvestic Disorder could provide clinically meaningful information as well as data useful for research."


gaelige said...

hey can you remove my partner and my email off here why did that go up? thanks!

gaelige said...

thanks for removing that mistake!
wondered, what is ypur take on my query?

Battybattybats said...

No worries Geilige. No idea what happened there, maybe you were accidentally signed into the wrong account when you posted?

As for the question you originally asked: " hi batty, do you think that all cd's are trans?
some sights that i have read trying to determine that seem to say that they themselves mostly don't feel trans, i would have thought that they were trans, too....
so it's confusing.
(-ftm trans and not a cd...)"

First there's many different understandings of what the Trans words mean. A cis-woman i know will argue till she's blue in the face that Transgender is the correct term for someone who has permanantly transitioned and had all the surgery and Transsexual is someone who crossdressers for erotic gratification and sex. No amount of evidence will dissuade her of this.

In my time following my own gradual self-acceptance I have reached the conclusion that the vast, vast, vast majority of crossdressers have a bi-gender gender identity of varying degrees.

That for them permanant transition would go against a part of them every bit as much as denying their other side has been.

They struggle with attempts to quit but cannot because it's an intrinsic part of them. An expensive process of sometimes regular purges of gender related apparel and items as well often as self-destructive behaviour which can include substance abuse self harm and even suicide attempts.

They struggle with something often referred to as 'pink fog'. A state where the need to express their gender diversity becomes no longer repressable and the person gets 'carried away' in purchases and actions of gender expression that may be disruptive to het cis relationships and labeled by many as 'selfish' which seems to me no less than attacks of repressed Gender Dysphoria building to explosive levels and the overwhelming temporary release, a boom-to-bust cycle like a pressure cooker regularly blowing it's release valve.

For a good number they may suspect themselves transsexual because of this pressure but after a period of release may find the force leading them to crossdress ebbs and even seems to go away.. often leading to another purge only for the need to build up again over time. This seems to be because of their bi-gender identity.

Battybattybats said...

For most as they increase self-acceptance this boom-bust cycle settles down into an equlibrium of duel gender expression with neither the purges or prolonged absence of need to express their other side nor the desperate need to do so... unless they slip into too much absence again and the pressure builds back up.

Thats not a hobby nor a fabric texture preferance nor a sexual fetish nor an addiction.

Though many struggling to understand or explain themselves may try and rationalise it as one of those. It just doesn't fit. And much of the crossdressing community is in deep denial of aspects of this. As well as there being often strictly enforced taboos from those frightened that what acceptence they have receieved or hope to receive from Het Cis Wives of MtF CDs will be scared away by recognsing links to GLB people and Transsexuals.

There is definate transphobia and homophobia involved in much of this, including people wanting to avoid perceived stigma associated with the other groups. 'i'm normal, unlike those sort of people!' sort of rubbish.

Of those that are not bi-gendered? Well I know a few people who tried to convince themselves they were just crossdressers but once they started towards self acceptance they had to admit they actually were transsexual. People who did not have the need to balance a male and female expression but who only being one, not the one they'd been assigned at birth, would have them happy and who prolonged experience of that one gender was a prolonged releif to them.

And of the few who claim to actually have what is only a pure sexual fetish? Which is a tiny tiny minority amongst crossdressers i might add, well i have my doubts and suspect they may like many others still be in denial of a bi-gender identity repressed in all aspects but their sexuality. However if i am wrong as crossdressing is not at all intrinsicly unethical those people should be free to enjoy their sexuality.

It's my current conclusion that all this suggests that crossdressers have a milder partial form of the same or similar neurological gender-identity phenomena of transsexuals. Of different degrees and proportions that vary from person to person from mild to substantial that varies from person to person.

gaelige said...

but now, not to knit pick-
you personally SEEM very trans,
and dual gendered. not all do...

also you are pretty young,
i'm thinking here re/ some older guys who identify as cis and hetro,
and you yourself are way alternative, so that seems a given.(with you)
but, what about guys who say "the clothes are 'male'(bra or skirt etc) on my male body " and such things? that seems to be UN-trans,no?
should i see them as trans and in denial?
that seems counter-intuative.
and appropriative maybe?

i realize there is a *closet*,
but can we second guess people?
as a community?

i mean if people seem bi gendered that is one thing, but i kind of have issues with second guessing cis seeming guys who self identify as straight...

also, what do you think re someone who is a cd and had really long waist length hair for 15 years and has now shaved their head and grown first ever facial hair (at
40,not a very masculine guy, by the wat)
is that like de-transition?
seems like it to me!(but again...)
second guessing...

thanks for the info, by the way, you are so cool!

ps: most people are NOT as alternative, or obivously dual gendered, or poly sexual and open,
so i guess *closeting* could be part of this,
but reading some cd sights
(to try to educate myself) is WAY differeant then reading yours...
and goth is so wonderfully non- mainstream,lol


gaelige said...

also remembered,
what about people who say they are cis till they put on clothes. we both know gender does not live in your clothes.
like not bi gender, but light switch gender. that is hard to figure out.
also, are some people on a spectrum, JUST "getting off" on a bra or something, as opposed to a gender identity?

like one end of it, and transexual the other?

gaelige said...

hey, how come you don't have any youtube stuff up?
you and your partner should do something on it, there are other goth trans people....!

gaelige said...

cool pick on this guys blog, i cant find it any other way-
4 pics down, scroll
(dark angel) you might have seen it before, its very nice...


Battybattybats said...

Knit-pick away! it's often a very important process to review any idea or opinion in detail!

Seeming is about expression, what is hidden is hidden, what is repressed is hidden. And even what is expressed is interpreted. So its alaways a bit of guesswork, which of course also applies to my observations.

I was born in the 70's so i'm not as young as I look :) And indeed Goth culture is a bit more gender-non-conformity accepting and along with already knowing the lie that conformity is a measure of a persons quality also helps in self-acceptance, though it didn't gurantee it, i still had my own Internalised Transphobia to overcome.

Peoples right to self-identification is important, so we should allow people to place themselves anywhere along the spectrum from male to female, but its also important to note the amount of Internalised Transphobia and the amount of Homophobia in the community especially in many of the people who describe themselves like that. So indeed i think that the vast majority of those people are in denial and struggling with true self acceptance and internalised transphobia.

Then as i said there is the pressure to not offend or scare of het cis partners. The crossdressing community is totally hamstrung by the cis concerns of cis partners. To the point where many groups like Tri-Ess for example have been known to exclude any bi or gay CDs outright from some chapters and in some of the more 'progressive' chapters to merely officially remove their voting/admin presence. The same is true for those who transition. All to try and keep any idea of connections between CD and TS and GLB seperate, especially from Cis Het wives who it is feared may cease to tolerate it if their common fear that CDing means their partner will be Gay or Transition were confirmed even as just a possibility.

So all this bias and internalised oppression needs to be considered in evaluating things.

Just suggesting the mere possibility of Internalised Oppression as a cause of many of the issues suffered by many CDs was an extremely controvertial topic on one large forum.

Many CDs are wracked with guilt about keeping secrets from their families, or for forcing their families to be exposed to such things and many CDs and partners consider the CDing a selfish act.

The example you give could well be the equivalent of de-transition, it could be they are atempting to 'quit' being a CD and may have packed up and/or thrown out or given away or sold their female clothes and makeup etc. and/or they may be trying to balance out the need to express a masculine side too after overdoing their feminine. It can be difficult to tell which and the two are often connected.

Almost every CD I know has purged at least once.

I've seen quite a few announce they are quitting and no longer have any desire to CD only to return a year, or months, even only weeks later feelling very remorseful for the waste of money in having to replace their wardrobe.

As for vids, certainly it's something we may do at some point, we live in different places at the moment and my CFS makes faster more imediate communication more taxing but perhaps eventually.

Battybattybats said...

The 'light switch' gender is likely i suspect caused by strong repression, the clothes being expressing that gender allow the person to unlock that part of themselves. The clothes permit the femininity.

Rather like a man who is 'straight' except . Something I'm told is very very common.

As for the person merely wearing the bra and reporting a turn-on, the question is what is the source of the feellings commonly reported which are not just of sexual pleasure but of emotional and stress relief? Especially when self-acceptance takes those reporting the sexual side to find it becomes mostly stress-relieving? I think this is the relief of repressed but accumulating mild gender dysphoria that is the cause of this.

A person with only mild TGness would need less gender-expression to relieve that pressure and/or less often need to do so. And thats what I've been observing. Some are fine with some androgyny on occassion, or a regular androgyny, some only under-dress while others try and pass in public. Some consider surgery of various types and degrees.

gaelige said...

still think some of these macho guys are way one end of the t spectrum, tho...

anyway i will be back to talk w/ you more,thanks for the info,
you know,you could put up a vid(like trannystar galactica or on there, and she could, from her home town too)
put up a link if you do i'll check it out.

also, check that pic- its hot.
you may have seen it around- but its worth a look i have put it up on my desktop, i love
"dark angel"

ps the person i mentioned (cd)
cut off waist lenght jet black hair(wah! so pretty...)
and seems to be, like,purging,
i guess, don't know too well, but its too bad...

well, hope to see you on youtube!
best and thanx,

gaelige said...

one last thing,(sorry!)

you know,...i wonder if the person i spoke of is actually bi- gendered, not just CD,does it seem to you that a het cross dresser in the closet would be comfortable with outward femininity like such long hair?

i mean,i THOUGHT the person was actually a transgender person, till the radical haircut after like 20 years of hair growth,
so i thought, "i must have been wrong"
but maybe they purged and are having a guilt trip?

if so it is really sad-
i'm trans, so i feel for all gender people, believe me!
-take care.

gaelige said...